and this relevant because (simon garner says so)

more of the old friends brigade spouting crap while ignoring the league table and money spent.

another juicy comment from the plum

and this relevant because (simon garner says so)

more of the old friends brigade spouting crap while ignoring the league table and money spent.

erm... no... it's relevant because Blackburn won the premiership three years after Kenny went through such a losing streak, meaning that it is not always the best decision to just sack the manager in times of hardship.

Although I am fully with you on the 'Sack Kenny' nonsense, you can't really use the Blackburn thing, I mean come on there is easily a counter argument.

Doesn't matter. The possibility is there - there is a precedent not only for it to happen but to happen with this manager. The probability is that it won't happen but the doom-gloomers can't have the rhetoric all their way. Just because we had a poor season and our new transfers were all disappointing... doesn't mean that exactly the same thing will happen next season. In fact, identical seasons don't normally come back to back. Everything depends on the players we supplement our team with this summer... many of our disappointing new arrivals could still make it with the right additions whether it comes from Kenny or someone else.

It's getting very old hearing all the tripe about sacking and clearing out the entire coaching and playing staff and starting again. Still haven't heard any real good recommendations of where we go if Kenny leaves. People throw out a name here of there but with no real insight into what it takes or absolute no experience in how to WIN in football. Winning is difficult. Last season people touted AVB and redknapp; would you take them now? Fact is nobody knows what is going on behind the scenes and nobody here has ever won anything at the level we are talking about. There's no defending the results of late but I'd like to believe we'll be better for what we're going through now.

Patience, loyalty, reason, the never-say-die spirit... all dead in the new generation of fans. Thanks to Xbox and Playstation and football manager kids just wilt when the going gets tough, or switch allegiances. Shankley is turning in his grave with the hypocrites that sing YNWA one day and turn on their club the next!

Stan, Shankly's first major signing never played a 1st team game.

He wasn't infallible either

That was what I said but overall the direction was fast progress.

well he did create probably the best attacking team we ever had. yep money was wasted, not the first top manager to waste money. a bump in the road, lets not scrap him .due to previous success and his experience i back him to turn it around. two cups in first season would be better than most other managers in league.

Well there will only ever be one Shankly Stan.

But dont forget Dalglish did give us 3 League Titles and our first Double.

He deserves respect for what he achieved the first time Stan whether you rate him or not.

i disagree. got to let him go again..commolli is the one signing the cheques. when torres left suddennly , we panicked and spent 35m on a drunk. i bet whoever was manager at the time that deal was getting done. carroll had had a decent 5 months and commolli was getting him no matter what.

he does of course. he is the manager, but like i said imo carroll was being bought no matter what. hendo to i feel was commolli's pet stats signing. straight in for him in the summer, whilst kenny's signings downing,adam dragged out a bit. maybe i am wrong but thats how i see it. carroll is a mare that needs to be forgotten about but i would be much happier if commolli left rather than kenny

he does of course. he is the manager, but like i said imo carroll was being bought no matter what. hendo to i feel was commolli's pet stats signing. straight in for him in the summer, whilst kenny's signings downing,adam dragged out a bit. maybe i am wrong but thats how i see it. carroll is a mare that needs to be forgotten about but i would be much happier if commolli left rather than kenny

Rubbish what do you know about Shankly ? he would not have stood for this nor would he have paid £35m for a pony tailed championship player. ok he did sign Alun Evans but we will ignore that. Shankly progressed the club more or less from day one he had small setbacks but overall the club went forward and fast. He was good with the media too unlike Kenny who is pityfull.

hendo will come good

carroll is a dalglish signing as kenny is still living in the 80's with his football concepts

big man small man combo

how old is this thinking in football terms?

About 12-13 years.

It did "exist" back when we was successful, with the likes of Toshack and Keegan, but nobody pointed out the "big man, little man stereotype" it was just simply, one good player, playing of, of another.

Only relatively recently have we come into a culture of the "big man, little man" A philosophy much used by a Harry Redknapp at West Ham, Portsmouth and early on at Spurs, although not so much now.

Carroll was bought to create options and space for players around him, bring them into play, assist goals and score them, whether or not the players around him are all 6'4 or all 5'5.

Kenny had two "big men" up front at Blackburn, with Shearer and Sutton. They were successful, did anyone complain about the "big man, big man" combination?

Your big man, little man, Kenny "80's football concept" falls on its ars*!

1. Kenny hasn't deployed Carroll and Suarez every single game.

and

2. When he has, it's not with the one dimensional conventional "big man, little man" philosophy either.




Finally, what makes you believe Hendo "will" come good, but Carroll won't?

Carroll hasn't exactly fired on all cylinders either, but there is a valid argument to make, that he has done more than Henderson AND offered a better option. Also, take into account, less trust, faith and persistence with Carroll.

Neither player has played to their maximum at all and neither justify the money spent on them.

But this Hendo "will" come good consensus I hear, is baseless. I for one really hope so, but I feel people are looking at Lucas as some sort of comparison and justification as to why Hendo "will" come good.

The fact is, Henderson isn't being converted to another position, like Lucas was. Henderson is playing in positions, attacking positions, familiar to him as a player. Positions he has played in before, and can admittedly play.

The fact that his output, is virtually nil, (even when played in his preferred position) worries me. I doubt whether Henderson will come good at all, I just haven't seen the small signs (like Lucas showed for instance) and especially when he didn't really set the world a light at Sunderland either.

Rubbish what do you know about Shankly ? he would not have stood for this nor would he have paid £35m for a pony tailed championship player. ok he did sign Alun Evans but we will ignore that. Shankly progressed the club more or less from day one he had small setbacks but overall the club went forward and fast. He was good with the media too unlike Kenny who is pityfull.

he cares about the club can you say all these blind dalglish faithers do?

Regarding Shankly: Yes, well done for seizing on one of my rare typos! I also forgot that you alone are the only one qualified to comment on our pre-Rafa history on this site. As has been pointed out - you are trying to compare two completely different eras. And for someone that criticises others for lapsing into nostalgia you show you are more than capable of it when it suits you. I don't think you can say who Shankly would have signed with today's money... but I can tell you he wouldn't kick the club in the teeth when their down... like you do every day!

Have to agree with what you said Stan.The club is a multi-national company and we as fans are the shareholders due to the large sums of cash we inject annually.In a large company there is a shareholders meeting
[end of season for us] and things have to be changed for the next financial year[next season].We as fans are not wrong to demand that changes be made to improve the situation.Now it's up toFSG to listen and make the changes or at least tell us the plan an dshow us how we are progressing.

Actually a lot of fans are shareholders as well

Stanley! You have an avatar!!

The sun will shine occasionally - even in Grimsville!

I tried to put my own up but lifes too short.

Actually a lot of fans are shareholders as well

nope sorry Stan they are not. All shares sold to Hicks/Gillete when they completed the 2007 deal. Now owned by FSG.

Used to be split between Moores 60%ish, Granada TV 20% and then others

You are right sorry