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#214828 - 18/04/12 12:16 AM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: bigredkop]
heggypompom Offline
Member

Registered: 22/01/12
Posts: 3876
Im thinking about strengthening the squad, if you want players to strengthen the first team, then we might as well go for adam johnson, defoe and de jong.
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#214835 - 18/04/12 12:55 AM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: bigredkop]
Bar Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/11
Posts: 7548
Originally Posted By: bigredkop
Originally Posted By: BarLennon
Originally Posted By: heggypompom
if we go british then fletcher form wolves, jarvis and given please

otherwise lets keep it foreign

Given isn't British, he's Irish.


Haha my fingers were ready to type in outrage too :P

On those players. I truly hope we don't sign any of them. They would take a club forward currently. We need first team players right now.


Haha grin

No offence caused, heggy mate, just clearing it up wink
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#214836 - 18/04/12 12:58 AM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: Bar]
heggypompom Offline
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Registered: 22/01/12
Posts: 3876
smile
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#214837 - 18/04/12 12:59 AM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: heggypompom]
AvailableOnAFree Offline
Member

Registered: 30/01/11
Posts: 552
Loc: Footie Wasteland (U.S.A.)
Originally Posted By: heggypompom
Im thinking about strengthening the squad, if you want players to strengthen the first team, then we might as well go for adam johnson, defoe and de jong.


I don't understand why people on here keep mentioning Defoe. If we're going to overtake Spurs, signing their rejects and cast-offs is probably not the best way to go about it. Johnson, I can understand. The only reason he doesn't get more game time at City is because they don't really play with wingers. But there are still better options out there for the wings that don't have the "English premium" 50% mark-up.
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#214842 - 18/04/12 01:57 AM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: AvailableOnAFree]
heggypompom Offline
Member

Registered: 22/01/12
Posts: 3876
I said defoe and was being lazy, we could sign negrado from sevilla.
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#214925 - 18/04/12 03:08 PM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: Carheex]
cp1972 Offline
Member

Registered: 14/06/10
Posts: 1138
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
They 'spent' over £100m no matter how you want to disguise the fact. If I sold my TV for £100 and bought a new one for £600, I still spent £600!! In fact, I spent £600 PLUS the loss made on my previous purchase as I still only have 1 TV, but how far back do you want to go to try and paper over the mistakes in order to some way try and justify p!ss poor business decisions?

Let's not try and hide the humungous management errors - let's just accept that we fvcked up big time and that it needs to be put right.


utter nonsense. what the hell have tv's got to do with it? these are human beings with no guarantee of what performance you would get. The squad in numerical terms has had 37mil spent on it, in comparison to other spenders in the Top 4 this is significantly lower, thats the point
maybe also we did not need to spend so much as the players we already have are already good enough? but the general consensus is that this was not the case.

The point being 37mil to improve an average team seems low.

i could use your analogy though:

we sold 14 tvs and replaced them with 8 tv's - using your calculations we should be better off although we are minus 6 tvs!!!! crazy

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#214926 - 18/04/12 03:16 PM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: cp1972]
Stanley Park Offline
Member

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 11283
Loc: Grimsville
THe two posts above went over my head however the signings by Kenny / Commoli / both were simply dreadful and have not improved the team which is unforgivable for that kind of money. (The Highest Transfer budget Liverpool FC has ever had). However you dress it up you cannot get over that. I feel any success with these players is seized on and people go completely overboard. For example Carroll he scored the winner against everton great but its a tiny step forward against the overriding position of a very average player where we payed out probably 4 times his value. Its complete madness and if I was FSG I would want some very good answers to how we got in that position and what Kenny (last remainding member of the Bonnie and Cylde team) will do about it.
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#214936 - 18/04/12 04:22 PM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: cp1972]
bigredkop Offline
Member

Registered: 21/07/11
Posts: 893
Originally Posted By: cp1972
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
They 'spent' over £100m no matter how you want to disguise the fact. If I sold my TV for £100 and bought a new one for £600, I still spent £600!! In fact, I spent £600 PLUS the loss made on my previous purchase as I still only have 1 TV, but how far back do you want to go to try and paper over the mistakes in order to some way try and justify p!ss poor business decisions?

Let's not try and hide the humungous management errors - let's just accept that we fvcked up big time and that it needs to be put right.


utter nonsense. what the hell have tv's got to do with it? these are human beings with no guarantee of what performance you would get. The squad in numerical terms has had 37mil spent on it, in comparison to other spenders in the Top 4 this is significantly lower, thats the point
maybe also we did not need to spend so much as the players we already have are already good enough? but the general consensus is that this was not the case.

The point being 37mil to improve an average team seems low.

i could use your analogy though:

we sold 14 tvs and replaced them with 8 tv's - using your calculations we should be better off although we are minus 6 tvs!!!! crazy


A couple of things I personally disagree with here. 1, the team didn't have 37 mill spent on it, it had 115 million spent on it, this is the definition of SPENT, it had 37 million invested. These are two different things. Both are important figures for different reasons.

i.e. when looking at effective use of funds, you look at the SPEND figure, 115 mill for the return of hendo Carroll etc etc.
when looking at how much the squad has improved year on year, you are more likely to use the investment figure although still here, sometimes total spend needs to be looked at in this context too, as sometimes you get a ridiculous amount of money for a player, 50 mill for torres, and it whacks out the investment figure.

On the analogy of -6 tvs, that is far far too simplistic a representation. If I sell those 14 TVs for more than what they are really worth (Chelsea were desperate for Torres, of course you can say a player is worth what someone paid for him, but in the context of this it's largely irrelevant) because he's rich and desperately wants those particular TVs, I then have more money than I did before, replacing those TVs with 8 new ones with the cost of more than the 14 should have been worth, I should get 8 much better TVs and so the -6 is worse argument is heavily flawed.

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#214961 - 18/04/12 06:03 PM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: bigredkop]
cp1972 Offline
Member

Registered: 14/06/10
Posts: 1138
Originally Posted By: bigredkop
Originally Posted By: cp1972
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
They 'spent' over £100m no matter how you want to disguise the fact. If I sold my TV for £100 and bought a new one for £600, I still spent £600!! In fact, I spent £600 PLUS the loss made on my previous purchase as I still only have 1 TV, but how far back do you want to go to try and paper over the mistakes in order to some way try and justify p!ss poor business decisions?

Let's not try and hide the humungous management errors - let's just accept that we fvcked up big time and that it needs to be put right.


utter nonsense. what the hell have tv's got to do with it? these are human beings with no guarantee of what performance you would get. The squad in numerical terms has had 37mil spent on it, in comparison to other spenders in the Top 4 this is significantly lower, thats the point
maybe also we did not need to spend so much as the players we already have are already good enough? but the general consensus is that this was not the case.

The point being 37mil to improve an average team seems low.

i could use your analogy though:

we sold 14 tvs and replaced them with 8 tv's - using your calculations we should be better off although we are minus 6 tvs!!!! crazy


A couple of things I personally disagree with here. 1, the team didn't have 37 mill spent on it, it had 115 million spent on it, this is the definition of SPENT, it had 37 million invested. These are two different things. Both are important figures for different reasons.

i.e. when looking at effective use of funds, you look at the SPEND figure, 115 mill for the return of hendo Carroll etc etc.
when looking at how much the squad has improved year on year, you are more likely to use the investment figure although still here, sometimes total spend needs to be looked at in this context too, as sometimes you get a ridiculous amount of money for a player, 50 mill for torres, and it whacks out the investment figure.

On the analogy of -6 tvs, that is far far too simplistic a representation. If I sell those 14 TVs for more than what they are really worth (Chelsea were desperate for Torres, of course you can say a player is worth what someone paid for him, but in the context of this it's largely irrelevant) because he's rich and desperately wants those particular TVs, I then have more money than I did before, replacing those TVs with 8 new ones with the cost of more than the 14 should have been worth, I should get 8 much better TVs and so the -6 is worse argument is heavily flawed.


BRK- If you reduce the value of the squad by 77mil(sales) and then spend 115mil on increasing the value you have only increased the value by 37mil - thats the point. This is all before the argument of quality of sales or purchases. Our competative set(in recent years) net spend is in the 100's of millions, so my point is relative to our competition our spend is quite low.

the tv thing was utter nonsense and was just a reply back to Carheex.

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#214965 - 18/04/12 06:10 PM Re: Is £20-30 million enough for next season? [Re: cp1972]
Stanley Park Offline
Member

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 11283
Loc: Grimsville
CP1972 its been done to death but I cannpot agree with your logic. Whenever you spend money you always seekin value (if you know what you are doing) the money you have previously realised is irrelevant to seeking of value on money you spend. If I waste £10k the fact that I have foung granny's hierloom in the attic also worth £10k does not change the fact I have wasted £10k.


Edited by Stanley Park (18/04/12 06:11 PM)
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